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Welcome to the next interview in our interview series where renowned mile and point gurus share their insights on having Big Travel with Small Money!
Miles & Points Interview: Passageiro de Primeira
Fabio is a frequent flyer who prefers spending more time in the air than anywhere else. So of course I wanted to chat with him about it!
Fabio in Prague
How and when did you start collecting miles and points?
I started collecting miles and points when I received my first VISA Platinum Card from former VARIG as my 16th birthday gift (11 years ago). I still remember the nice silver box where the card came and started reading all the benefits. The part about miles and points came up and really got my attention, making me very interested. From that day on I never stopped reading and studying about them.
Fabio in Milan, Italy
In less than 2 years I got an upgrade to a Mastercard Black, 2 Visa Infinite and The Platinum Card from Amex and started collecting double points for each U$1 spent. Today I’m one of the few travel award consultants in Brazil, and I´m very proud of it. I usually book around 60 to 70 award tickets per month and although it is very time-consuming, I love what I do. Actually, I barely have time to do my own bookings anymore. LOL
Why did you start your blog? What’s special about it?
I graduated in 2010 with a Bachelor diploma in Tourism and Hospitality Management from Modul University in Vienna, Austria. During my time at University I gained a lot of theoretical and practical knowledge about airlines, travel industry and tourism. After finishing my studies I came back to my home country (Brazil), and I was kind of lost about what I was going to do from that moment on. I used to search about airlines news, frequent flyer programs articles, etc and post them on my Facebook profile
Fabio in Bahamas
One day a friend of mine said “You should spread your knowledge better, start a blog”. I think that was the small push I needed. So I started my blog Passageiro de Primeira (which means in English “First Passenger”) about airlines, credit cards and loyalty programs. Soon after 3 months I started receiving 300 visitors per day, and in 1 year the blog had about 1.000 visitors a day. The special thing about my blog is that it is unique, since here in Brazil the points and miles culture is not very common. So it is a pleasure to explain my readers how to get the best out of them. And I believe I’m among the few ones who write about this content in my country.
I also offer an award booking service through my blog, and this is what I´m “famous” here for. Around 96% of my clients are TAM Airlines clients, so I usually book only Star Alliance members. Award tickets from GOL Linhas Aereas (the other major airline in Brazil) are bookable online, so they have less demand.
What’s the one single thing people can do to get more miles?
My advice for people to earn more miles is to use the credit card for everything, even a small candy from a grocery shop. And of course, hotels and airline point-reward promotions are usually good deals.
What’s your most memorable travel experience?
I think all my travel experiences are memorable, because I tend always to choose airlines that I haven’t flown so I can try their services. For me, the destination doesn´t matter much, what really counts is the journey. If I can go from Sao Paulo to Las Vegas, I want to go the longest way, with the maximum number of segments possible, of course, in premium cabin. I wouldn’t dare travel that long in economy.
Fabio in St. Barths
But just to mention any, I would say my 6-month internship in St. Barths in 2009 where I spent one of the greatest times of my life. And Xmas and New Year in Lebanon in 2009/2010. Beirut, Jbail, Baalbek are also wonderful places and worth visiting.
Fabio in Beirut
What do your family and friends think of your miles & points hobby?
My family and friends think I’m an airline freak. LOL… But they all support me, especially when I get them business and first class for free using their miles. Besides that, they know I love what I´m doing.
Is there any tool or trick which you’ve found especially useful in this hobby?
I don’t know about other countries, but the best trick for points here in Brazil is to pay one credit card with another. We have a bank system in Brazil that allows you to pay one credit card with the other, so as much credit cards you have, more points you will get. Nowadays I have 4 credit cards and I´m able to get around 200,000 miles per month just rolling over one payment after the other. Usually the bank charges 2.99% per month of the amount of the credit card bill that you are paying with the other. But the glitch is, if you pay one credit card with another today, and go to the bank tomorrow and pay the 2nd one you are charged only 1 day which should be 0.09%. So it is totally worth it.
Another thing that we have in Brazil is that the Rewards program of one of my Banks (Bradesco) actually buys the ticket instead of using miles/points to book it. So in the end they deduct the points from my Rewards account, and that ticket will actually accrual miles since it is a revenue ticket. The amount of points/miles you need is proportional to the ticket’s price, so it is not worth using them for business or first class. In this case the best option is to transfer to any airline program and redeem the award ticket the normal way. The banks in Brazil usually transfer points/miles to TAM Airlines (Star Alliance) or GOL (Delta, Air France-KLM and Qatar Airways)..
Another trick is that TAM Airlines (currently a Star Alliance member) does not have any mileage limit permitted for itineraries. I can book a flight from Sao Paulo to New York with 10 connections that their system will allow to do so.
What was the least expected way you’ve earned miles or points?
Fabio in New York
I never forget one day I had a trip to New York and it was snowing something unbelievable. When I arrived to Crowne Plaza the hotel was fully booked even though I had a confirmed reservation. They offered me 80,000 points for each day of my stay if I decided to move to Ramada. In the end I got 560,000 points. In addition I got Priority Club Platinum status for 2 years. That was amazing!
What do you now know about collecting miles and points which you wish you knew when you started out?
I wish I knew about this “pay credit card with another” thing earlier so I could have collected more points. This is actually recent to me, from 6 years ago. In addition I wish I knew blogs with so much great information like yours earlier, so I could develop my skills.
What would your readers be surprised to know about you?
My readers are usually surprised when I tell them that I´m only 26 (turning 27 next month) and had traveled so much already. Since I don´t have any self-portrait picture on my blog, I believe they think I´m around 40-50´s. LOL
Any parting words?
Pay less to fly first class!
Fabio in Budapest
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I have earned and redeemed millions of airline miles and hotel points to travel the world for free. Now I'm blogging to help more people do the same! 
Best friday interview you have had in months. Really nice to read about someone from another country doing this stuff. This guy is truly unique in Brazil, no one here is an expert in the TAM and Gol programs, which are the only two Brazilians bother to invest in, and are truly pains-in-the-ass to deal with at times.
Great interview. If only there was a way to roll payments over here in the US!
Can Americans open up credit cards in Brazil?
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Nice to see fellow Brazilians enjoying the “Miles & Points” world. Great interview!!!
Great interview, thanks. I can’t believe someone would choose 10 connections to get somewhere, but more power to you!
I don’t understand this quote, “I got an upgrade to a Mastercard Black, 2 Visa Infinite and The Platinum Card from Amex and started collecting double points for each U$1 spent.” Where do the double points come from? Thanks and happy travels.
OMG! OMG! OMG!!!!
Where in the world can I get Brazilian credit cards? The very thought of paying one card off with another is making it very hard to concentrate on my work today!
I love the dolphin pic in front of Atlantis. Makes me want to do it!
I checked this blog. I dont see anywhere regarding the 200K points/month. Need more details!
Anyone have a link to that specific trick/process?
I and the wife churn CCs in the US but all her family is in Brazil and I would love to get them on it especially at 200K a month! For once they can start visiting us vs us going to them all the time!
I suddenly smell Americans preparing a full frontal assault on the Brazilian credit card market.
Great interview, loved the perspective of a miles and points collector from another country. Sure wish we could rollover payments here in the US.
Hahahaha…Thats funny E!
I already emailed friends and family down under to confirm and validate such relaxed terms and conditions! The RECON team is out and the ATTACK begins!!!
I’m guessing he’s got 10K in debt and making daily payments(around 20 a month) to come up with 200K/month.
David, I would be glad to assist your wife´s family with the information about the rollover payments. Let me know ok?
Andras, I meant that those credit cards accrual 2,2 miles/points per U$ spent.
Fabio yes definitely interested in details on how the rollover payments work in Brazil. Looked on your website but i don’t read spanish. Thanks E
Carakas….. (Brazilians knows this expression lol) I think I’m moving back to Brazil. 200K miles a month??? Fabio please tell me how to do it… My family is down there and money is short to come to visit me here in the US.
Best interview ever
Simple. Instead of merely doing frequent flier bookings for clients (60-70/ month – nice!), Fabio will start a new business. He will take out PO Boxes in Brazil for Americans for a fee! Once a year, he can empty them all out since the only thing in there would be credit card bills and we’d all be doing it online anyway.
Still salivating!
Fabio, It seems like you have multiple readers interested on the details of how this works. May I suggest you make a detailed post on your blog for all to see? Preferably both in Portuguese and English, if not Chrome will be able to translate most of it. Of if its easier, you can email me at ddavid1101(at)hotmail(dot)com
I feel like this is the new Frontier! The new Wild Wild West!!! And for once I will be semi ahead of the pack rolling with the wagons!
E, the website actually is in Portuguese, we don´t speak Spanish. LOL….
This is how it works: I use 2 credit cards for small purchases on a daily basis, like grocery shops, gas station, flight tickets, etc.
By the end of the month, I pay this 2 credit cards with another one from a different bank. After 3 days I do the same and pay the 3rd credit card with a 4th one. Finally I go to the bank and pay the full amount of the last one and that´s it, end of the cycle. It is like transferring the balance from one credit card to another.
I do this for me and my family, each one of us has the same type/category of cards, that´s why I´m able to accrual so many miles.
Fabio,
Cant you do this perpetually vs paying it off? (ie. 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, 4-1, 1-2…… and do this every business day)
Also what are the specific credit cards do you hold? The 4 you are playing with? I want to google them up and read up on them.
Can you pay your own credit card bill with another one of your credit cards or can you only pay someone else’s credit card?(ie. you pay dad, dad pay mom, mom pays sister etc)
I just sent this info to my brother who lives in Sao Paolo. He has always been so jealous of me for my miles and always told him to move here. Now he can stay there perhaps and earn on his own instead of constantly begging me for some miles:-)
I generally found these interviews kind of useless other than helping yo and each subject cross link. But this one was interesting to me because of Brazil, thanks!
@David,
You can pay any bill that you want(electricity, telephone, cable tv, fees, car leasing, etc..) even your company bills, actually anything with a bar code. The problem is by the end of the year you have to justify to the Income Tax department how you were able to spend that much money. But if you have a high income, that shouldn´t be a problem.
Unfortunately, I had some clients who had their bank accounts terminated and miles deducted because they were using the pay bills in a large scale, around 500kU$ per month. The bank sent them a letter saying their accounts were going to be closed due to lack of interest. You have to be very careful to use this feature. You cannot just use the credit card to pay bills like a jackpot, you have to do some purchases also.
My Credit Cards:
1-Bradesco Prime Mastercard Black – Daily life (not able to pay bills)
2-Bradesco Prime Visa Infinite – Daily life (not able to pay bills)
3-Santander Unlimited Mastercard Black – Pay bills
4-Itau Personnalite Visa Infinite – Pay bills
Fabio,
Thanks for the info. Kinda sad now that this is not perpetual(the likes of Mint in the US). I guess your limit is additional payments before paying off the bill as per your previous post. What would be a good guideline in terms of what you should target for and not go over? 2X? 3X? 4X? per bill and total Bills should not be 50% 75% 100% 150% of income?
Really appreciate the info!
Do the bills have to be European bills or can they be U.S. bills?
Will these credit cards allow U.S. bills to be charged to them?
Lazer,
I assume all bills have to be from BRAZIL and not EU or US or anywhere else. Payments are made with bills with barcodes
Fabio, Sorry for being such an ignorant slut.
Thanks for all the cc info. Very interesting. Wondering how to get approved for Brazilian cards as an American with no current Brazilian ties. (My brother in law did grow up in Sao Paulo).
Also do these payment practices exist in other countries?
Anyone have an extra Rosetta Stone in Portuguese?
@David, I wouldn´t exceed the amount of total bills more than 50-60% of my income per month.
Maybe in a month or another I can go over that, but not throughout the whole year.
Wow. So if those are the numbers, it would be EXTREMELY hard to make a big chunk of miles.
Example: TARGET: 100K miles per month
Requirement:
Monthly Income: 50K-60K USD (Annualized at 600K-720K USD)
Actual $ Spend = 100K / 6 = 17K USD a month (Assuming 2 mile / $ spent, then it’s 6 miles / $ spent when transferring between 3 cards)
200K Miles a Month:
For a ordinary individual/family to get 200K miles per month would be extremely hard requiring 100K-120K USD in monthly income (to not trigger any alarm bells with IRS equivilant) and 33K USD a month in actual spend.
Conclusion:
At best this looks like a way to increase the number of Miles/Points per $ Spent from 1% to 3% or 2% to 6% etc, but you cant manufacture spend as you are monitored(IRS Equiv), which is very different from the likes of Mint / Ink etc(I’m churning through 5-10K a month in fake(in/out) spend on Ink at 3.5% return inclusive of fees).
Takes me back to the 80s. Wasn’t into miles back then but the 0% loans were nice…
David, can you elaborate on what you do with Ink? Is this the Ink Bold card?
Geoff, check out Frequentflyer’s forum “One Card to Rule them all”
@ Geoff – I’m guessing that David is referring to using the Ink Bold to purchase vanilla reload cards at Office Depot (for the 5x points), then using the reload cards to fund an Amex prepaid, Mio or Netspend card to cash out thru an ATM. After the ATM and Vanilla Reload card fees, 3.5% return sounds about right.
Greatest interview, so far – congrats MMS and Fabio.
@Fabio – is it possible to use different Brazilian cc’s or only works with the ones you listed?
Good job, Daraius, for finding a miles-and-points comrade of ours outside of the US!
@Mon, the “pay bills” if offered by the bank and not by the card.
As far as I know, in Brazil the banks that offer them are: Itau, Santander and Banco do Brasil.
This sorta reminded me of Bank of America/FIA Merrill Lynch Plus Visa card a couple of years ago. They allowed me to pay my other card issuers’ credit cards using BoA/FIA credit card (in addition to paying eletric bills, telephone bills, etc…). All that goodness was stopped after they sent a letter saying they no longer allowed usage of their credit card to pay another credit card. I don’t remember much about earning points with such payment. However, having one BIG consolidated bill to pay each month was totally cool!
How can I get a Brazilian Credit Card?! I’m intrigued about the award ticket that accrues miles. I wonder if Ultimate Reward bookings work that way…
Thanks, Fabio. I also have family in Brazil and nearly depleted my FF acct getting them award tickets, so this is GREAT news for us if they can also accrue miles. Would you recommend any other cards or stick with the cards you have? When you mentioned some people had their accounts closed, was it with a particular bank that had more strict monitoring or could it happen with any of them? I trust David’s calculations are better than mine, in which case one would need to pay bills for someone else in order to reach 200k miles/month – is it safe to pay a relative’s bill or would this also raise a red flag?
This is the best interview on here hands down. Great job Fabio and Darauis for locating the points/miles guru from another parallel world. How did your paths cross by the way out of curiosity.
Earning points through balance transfer used to be available in the US in the 90′s, no balance transfer fees were common back then and with some cards you used to be able to earn points just for doing balance transfer. I still remember that I used to earn points with Wells Fargo just by doing a no fee/no interest balance transfer. Each dollar transferred would accrue me one point. So each month I was accruing about 10,000 points which can be used to redeem towards airlines ticket by taking $100 off each 10,000 points redeemed. Every few months I would earn enough points to travel around the US for free visiting friends all over the place. Wish we still have this in the US. I dind’t want to overdo the point accumulation for fear of being shut down which worked well for me. I am very happy for you Fabio that are accruing an awesome amount of miles (200K a month) and it sounds like you are measuring yourself and not overdoing it either. Wish I have some ties with Brazil to take advantage of this opportunity but I guess you probably need to use Brazilian ID and income to open credit cards there right?
Cheers!
I can only imagine the shenanigans that would go on in the USA if we could pay credit card bills with other credit cards to earn extra miles. It would be a truly epic churn!
Realistically, though, unless you have family/business in Brazil, I don’t think you can get in on this action.
@Mon, ITAU was the bank who was shutting down the accounts. Of course you can pay other´s bill as long as you stay in a safe limit to not raise the red flag.
@MillionMiler Yes, unfortunately you must have ties to Brazil and also a CPF(Tax Payee Account Number) and a National ID.
David, the Frequentflyer’s forum article “One Card to Rule them all” reviews the Wallaby card. This is an allocation card, not an extra rewards scheme, from what I can see. Is there something I’m missing? How does this relate to Mint or Ink Bold?
@Geoff, READ it over again. Bottom line, you use INK which gets you 5% at office depot to buy vanilla reload cards which refills/fills Amex prepaid cards, at which point you go to any low cost atm and take out the money to pay for the INK bill. Do this at the rate of 5-10K a month you will get a NET 3.5%ish in UR points through INK. You can max out at 250K in UR points per calendar year which is a max purchase of 50K.
If you dont under stand this, read it again.
@Fabio and MillionMiler
I love this idea but the problem I see is that it’s not scalable. Refer to my detailed post on Sept 28th at 11:44am:
Example: TARGET: 100K miles per month
Requirement:
Monthly Income: 50K-60K USD (Annualized at 600K-720K USD)
Actual $ Spend = 100K / 6 = 17K USD a month (Assuming 2 mile / $ spent, then it’s 6 miles / $ spent when transferring between 3 cards)
200K Miles a Month:
For a ordinary individual/family to get 200K miles per month would be extremely hard requiring 100K-120K USD in monthly income (to not trigger any alarm bells with IRS equivilant) and 33K USD a month in actual spend.
Conclusion:
At best this looks like a way to increase the number of Miles/Points per $ Spent from 1% to 3% or 2% to 6% etc, but you cant manufacture spend as you are monitored(IRS Equiv), which is very different from the likes of Mint / Ink etc(I’m churning through 5-10K a month in fake(in/out) spend on Ink at 3.5% return inclusive of fees).
Fabio, please correct me if my assumptions are wrong. But to me, 200K/month is misleading for the ordinary Brazilian or individual. You basically need a annual income of at least 1.2 Million USD to not set off alarm bells based on the guidelines you provided. Unless fellow readers, bloggers, American, Brazilians make over $1.2 million USD a year, they wont/cant hit 200K miles per month without being shut down or be flagged by IRS equiv.
I like reading this blog along with many others because most posts are doable by the average person with an average income and not provide an example where it might require a $1 mil income. I really hope I’m wrong with my assumptions and numbers but please correct me if I’m wrong. I would love to be wrong and help my friends and family in Brazil in getting their hands on miles too.
To all non-Brazilian readers eager to open a Brazilian credit card account after reading this post, you most likely cannot. Brazilian banks and CC companies are far more restrictive than those in the US, in my experience (many years here as an expat). You need to have the Brazilian equivalent of a social security number, and other local documentation to open a Brazilian bank account. Similar documents, all of which usually have to be shown or faxed in, are required for a CC.
@David, let me put this into numbers(an example) so maybe it is easier to understand.
We are 4 people at my place including myself (mom, sister, brother-in-law).
Brother in-law
Daily life purchases – U$4,000 x 2 = 8,000 Miles
Transfer balance to his 1st credit card = 8,000 Miles
Transfer balance to his 2nd credit card = 8,000 Miles
TOTAL: 24,000 Miles
Sister
Daily life purchases – U$4,000 x 2 = 8,000 Miles
Transfer balance to her 1st credit card from her previous card (8,000) and from her husband last card (8,000) = 16,000 Miles
Transfer balance to her 2nd credit card from her previous = 16,000 Miles
Total: 40,000 Miles
Me
Daily Life Purchase – U$4,000 x 2 = 8,000 Miles
Transfer balance to my 1st credit card from my previous card (8,000) and from sister´s last card (16,000) = 24,000 Miles
Transfer balance to my 2nd credit card from my previous = 24,000 Miles
Total: 54,000 Miles
Mom
Daily Life Purchase – U$5,000 x 2 = 10,000 Miles
Transfer balance to her 1st credit card from her card (10,000) and from my last card (24,000) = 34,000 Miles
Transfer balance to her 2nd credit card from her previous = 34,000 Miles
Total: 78,000 Miles
Average per cycle: 196,000 Miles
Does it sound clear now or still confusing?
@ Fabio,
Thanks for the clarification. The requirement in terms of Total payment/spend as a % of Actual income still applies. As per your example above:
Brother in Law, 4K original spend X 3 = 12K Total payments per month, as per your payment to income ratio of 50%, he needs to make 24K a month or 288,000 a year to not look suspicious.
Sister: 4K + 8K +8K = 20K Total Payments requiring 40K in monthly income = 480K in annual income
You: 4K + 8K +12K = 24K Total Payments requiring 48K in monthly income = 576K in annual income
Mom: 5K + 12K + 17K = 34K Total Payments requiring 68K in monthly income = 616K in annual income
Total income required from all 4 members for 196K miles per month = $180,000 a month or $1,960,000 per year
So my question is, does my income requirements as per your example make sense? Keep in mind, this is based on your comments above in terms of 50-60% ratio to not get accounts closed etc(Sept 28th 10:56am).
@David, actually the 50-60% I said was about third party bills, for example company bills, etc.
Rolling over one payment from one card to another card under your name is somehow “explainable” in the end of the year during tax return through your credit card statements.
I´m sorry If I´m not that good in numbers to explain it, neither to give you an example how to calculate it.
Actually I´m pretty impressed with your accounting skills, it´s like a miles accounting consultant man!
I never thought that way, neither did the math for that. I think I still have some couple of year of learning. Congrats!
Oh…This is great news! Then does it mean you really can do it more than 3X? Since it’s explainable with IRS equiv? Maybe say 6-10 times per $ of actual spend?
@David,
I think so, but I cannot affirm that. My accountant told me that 2 of his clients they had problems and they could explain it after a long period of discussion the whole process of rolling over, but it took them some time, lawyers and money. But it is something that I cannot actually prove or say it will work, since they never asked so far any explanation from me, due to the fact that I try to keep my self on the safe side.
I’m really disappointed with this interview. I found it really misleading. The title leads me to believe it will tell me how to “get around 200,000 miles per month just rolling over one payment after another”. This is then repeated in the body of the interview, without any disclaimer that it does not apply to anyone not residing in Brazil. By reading the comments one can see others read it that way too, and were really excited to begin doing it themselves. But after one wastes one’s time reading all the way thru the comments, it turns out you can only do this if you move to Brazil. It’s up to BrazilReader to tells us the sad news: “To all non-Brazilian readers eager to open a Brazilian credit card account after reading this post, you most likely cannot.”
How many readers of this blog live in Brazil, or would seriously considering moving there? The rest of US were hyped up with the prospect of getting miles in a way totally unavailable to US. We were pulled in by a title implying a non-existant opportunity, then disappointed to find out it was a false hope all along. Other than this misleading issue, there was nothing in the interview other than “I use credit cards to get miles, and use them to travel”. Wow, that was really educational…./sarc
In past criticisms of MMS, I’ve been a strong defender of it. Not this time. I found this interview a waste of my time, that raised false hopes for no good reason, and my first serious disappointment in this blog !
@Robert, the post is very clear this may only to Brazil. A simple reading of the text would make that obvious (“I don’t know about other countries, but the best trick for points here in Brazil is to pay one credit card with another. We have a bank system in Brazil that allows you to pay one credit card with the other….”). Also, this post title shouldn’t raise false hopes or mislead readers as maliciously as you outline. No one is entitled to a disclaimer, and this is just an interview about another point collector’s experience abroad, not about how to collect points internationally. Not everything will be written to provide you alone, value — that’s the beauty of a blog, newspaper, etc. I also don’t think the comments suggest people read it the way you did. Every travel blog post has reader comments that explore questions beyond the scope of the actual post (that’s why we read comments, to learn more!).
this was a great read, i got all excited about your ideas, only to learn that none of them work in the US.
@Fabio, could you give some details about this one:
“Another trick is that TAM Airlines (currently a Star Alliance member) does not have any mileage limit permitted for itineraries. I can book a flight from Sao Paulo to New York with 10 connections that their system will allow to do so.”
This looks very promising? Is there a way we can transfer miles into TAM account, or easily redeem a TAM tickets with those multiple connection using other Star Alliance airlines miles?
Thanks.
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